[Phil]

vul/vul - Swiss

♠AQx ♥KQT9x ♦xxx ♣Qx

pass - (pass) - 1♥ - (pass)
2♣ - (2♦) - pass - (pass)
3♥ - (pass) - ?

2♣ wasn't really discussed, but assume 3+ limit. Your pass wasn't discussed either.

[Jlall]

Even though I don't like to play this way, I'll assume partner took my pass as showing extras since that's how most experts play, and also because I doubt partner would jump to 3H very often if they didn't think pass showed extras! lol.

xxx diamond should not be THAT bad, because assuming partner is not terrible he should downgrade for his own diamond holding. Still if partner has 4 trumps, no diamond wastage, and the nuts he can bid 4H on his own (eg Kxx Axxx xx Kxxx should bid game on it's own if pass was forward going).

Something like Kxxx Jxxx xx AJx is possible and that game is very good. Something like Kx Axxx xxx Kxxx is also possible and that is a no play game.

Basically it seems like most hands where partner has 2 diamonds game is pretty good, and with 3 diamonds game is terrible, and I think partner is more likely to have 2 diamonds so I'll bid game. Also in these situations I always err on the side of bidding cuz, you know, it's a vul game yo!

[hanp]

Nice question, don't have anything to add though.

[jdonn]

Seems obvious to me to bid. Partner bid 3♥ not 2♥ having already shown a limit raise.

[peachy]

Good trumps, no wasted diamonds, it is IMPs, we are vul. In this auction, I don't expect diamond wastage with partner either, so he has his max LR values in the other three suits.

[whereagles]

Agree that pard would have devaluated misplaced diamond honors. After all, he could have bid 2♥ only. It's game on here.

[Phil]

Pard held xx 8xxx xx AKxxx. I thought this was a pretty aggressive LR - do you think? Or is it OK IYO? Spade hook worked but LHO held the ♥A as expected, as in AJx. I took the push here too. Lose 6.

Not sure I want to be in game here single dummy on this auction. Opponents play Flannery, so 2♦ could be 6 (it wasn't).

:Justin - I'm surprised you would take pass = extras. I realize thats mainstream expert, but I thought you would have played it as a defensive minimum.

[jdonn]

Why didn't partner bid 3♣ instead of 3♥? Forget to alert 2♣ Phil?

[dburn]

Would bid four and shrug if it didn't make. Would have bid 3♣ on partner's actual hand, but that would have got us to game also.

Have never understood this "pass shows extras" business. If you don't have extras you pass; if you do have extras you make some descriptive bid that shows them.

[Jlall]

Phil, on May 4 2010, 06:58 PM, said:

:Justin - I'm surprised you would take pass = extras. I realize thats mainstream expert, but I thought you would have played it as a defensive minimum.

Umm. Lets examine the first sentence of my post:

Quote

Even though I don't like to play this way, I'll assume partner took my pass as showing extras since that's how most experts play

The bold indicates that I do not play the mainstream expert way,

The 2nd part indicates that since it's the mainstream expert way, that's what I'll assume my partner thinks it means.

When I have no agreements, I fall back on the default "what do most experts play." Unfortunately my random expert partner's do not know my random idiosyncracies where I do not play expert standard, so rather than put my head in the sand and just assume whatever I personally like I go with expert standard undiscussed. Not sure why this is surprising!

Quote

Why didn't partner bid 3♣ instead of 3♥?

Whatever, it's not like you will downgrade your hand after hearing 3C. I think partner also has a perfect hand for a fit jump immediately but I guess they did not know if 2N or 3C would be the bid.

Failing that, partner could bid 3H as a mixed raise or bid drury. Both seem pretty reasonable to me, it is kind of heavy for a MR and kind of weak for a LR.

After that I do agree with partner's decision not to sign off in 2H after our pass, xx diamonds is good. If you change our hand a little and give us no CQ and one more point in the majors game is good.

If you change partners hand a little and give him the HJ, game is good. So basically partner took the aggressive action twice, and we took an aggressive action, and we got to a game that is not unreasonable vul at imps (but not desirable either).

[jdonn]

I wasn't saying I wouldn't have bid game anyway, or that I minded (too much) being in this game. You must admit though, 3♥ instead of 3♣ sure looks like the "partner didn't alert 2♣" bid!

[Phil]

Jlall, on May 4 2010, 07:21 PM, said:

Phil, on May 4 2010, 06:58 PM, said:

:Justin - I'm surprised you would take pass = extras. I realize thats mainstream expert, but I thought you would have played it as a defensive minimum.

Umm. Lets examine the first sentence of my post:

Quote

Even though I don't like to play this way, I'll assume partner took my pass as showing extras since that's how most experts play

Sorry - didn't read your older post closely enough.