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IMP, both vul, bidding went:
1NT - 2♦ - 3♦ - 4♦
X?
1NT = 15-17
2♦ = natural overcall
3♦ = stayman with no ♦ stopper
How do you interpret this double?
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What is this double?
#1
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Posted 2010-March-20, 07:16
#2
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Posted 2010-March-20, 07:26
That 4♦ was a mistake.
With 4-4 in the majors, opener could bid 4♥ if he wants to.
With 4-4 in the majors, opener could bid 4♥ if he wants to.
Michael Askgaard
#3
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Posted 2010-March-20, 13:41
Responder did not guarantee both majors, so it seems opener has to have a way to do that with a double here. There was a string about a week ago which is closely related to this. If the opps have "made a mistake", I think pass is the only way to possibly exact a penalty from partner's double.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#4
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Posted 2010-March-20, 14:34
It's ok to pass with a penalty of 4♦. Responder is bound to be short there and, since he bid 3♦, he sure got the points to bid.
#5
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Posted 2010-March-20, 19:19
Both Ms. Agree with AQH and Nuno.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#6
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Posted 2010-March-21, 05:34
3♦ is a gameforcing bid in my book, and my usual meta agreement is that all doubles in gameforcing auctions are to defend.
Other approaches are possible.
Other approaches are possible.
Michael Askgaard
#7
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Posted 2010-March-21, 09:09
MFA, on Mar 21 2010, 06:34 AM, said:
3♦ is a gameforcing bid in my book, and my usual meta agreement is that all doubles in gameforcing auctions are to defend.
Other approaches are possible.
Other approaches are possible.
That's what I would think too.
"Are you saying that LTC merits a more respectful dismissal?"
#8
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Posted 2010-March-21, 13:20
I play as many takeout doubles as anyone, and it would not occur to me that this one was not penalty.
#9
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Posted 2010-March-21, 14:02
Just shows a preference to defend without a
4cM.
I've never had a jump on the table penalty double in this situation.
4cM.
I've never had a jump on the table penalty double in this situation.
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#10
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Posted 2010-March-22, 16:00
I think 4♥ here has to be both majors, otherwise what if opener has only hearts and responder only spades? So I would just play double as penalty and pass with the other hands.
#11
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Posted 2010-March-24, 01:49
So far I have got two main completely opposing views:
1. penalty (because this is a forcing situation, double means desire to defend rather than going further).
2. take-out (for real penalty, you can pass and pass the partner's possible double).
I think both camps have their reasoning but the problem is that when one employ a double, how can he know what interpretation his partner will conceive? So for any serious partnership, there must be some metarules to guide you through undiscussed auction.
Can anyone enlighten me for their metarules about the meaning of double? Misunderstanding in this area surely leads to disaster (recent example the Vanderbilt match between HH and FN).
1. penalty (because this is a forcing situation, double means desire to defend rather than going further).
2. take-out (for real penalty, you can pass and pass the partner's possible double).
I think both camps have their reasoning but the problem is that when one employ a double, how can he know what interpretation his partner will conceive? So for any serious partnership, there must be some metarules to guide you through undiscussed auction.
Can anyone enlighten me for their metarules about the meaning of double? Misunderstanding in this area surely leads to disaster (recent example the Vanderbilt match between HH and FN).
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