[Hanoi5]

You're white, they're red:

♠x
♥Axx
♦xx
♣AJxxxxx

1♠ 1NT
2♦ ???

What do you bid now?

3♣ is to pass here, right? Would you bid that?

[aguahombre]

the way we play it, 3C (now) is 10-12 with a decent six card suit. So the extra club makes it just fine. A crap hand with long clubs would have bid 3C the first time in our style. but others might not have that available because of Bergen, or somesuch.

[gwnn]

this is an impossible hand now I would just cry and hide under the table. Or bid 2NT. people who don't like invitational jump shifts will point out how rare they come up but it is really painful when they do come up and you have no solution.

[manudude03]

In my 2/1 partnership where I don't play IJS (I play bergen), I play 3♣ here as 7+-10, so would also bid 3♣ here.

[jjbrr]

ya gwnn is right. 1♠ p 3♣ natural invite is such a winner.

now you have to bid 3♣ and hate doing so.

[Siegmund]

If you've seen some of my partners' notions of opening bids, 3C nonforcing is just about right here. I mean, it IS a misfitting 9, and you have no guarantee partner's hand is worth a trick to you in clubs.
You don't have any alternative, anyway, if you don't have an agreed-upon way to show a limit hand in clubs.

[mike777]

Hanoi5, on Mar 13 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

You're white, they're red:

♠x
♥Axx
♦xx
♣AJxxxxx

1♠ 1NT
2♦ ???

What do you bid now?

3♣ is to pass here, right? Would you bid that?

system hole that I just choose to live with.

My options are:

2s showing a weakish hand with 2s

pass

3c showing long clubs and around 11/12-13.....

In practice I bet at the table I will try 3c.
In practice it seems the opp overcall something very very often and save us. ty.

[aguahombre]

Yeh, I sympathize with everyone for whom this hand is a hole in the system -- as they sympathize with my inability to show 17 different kinds of major suit raises.

[MarkDean]

Yeah, that is a real weakspot in 2/1 if you do not play an immediate 3♣ is invitational. I had one partner who insisted that 2/1 was not GF if the suit was rebid, which helped on this hand, but opened up a whole other can of worms.

[CSGibson]

3C. Don't even feel bad about it, really, this seems to be a perfect description of the hand.

[peachy]

For me, in 2/1, 3C here is "to play" with singleton or void in spades, inadequate diamonds to Pass 2D and no 5+card hearts. I admit it is a hole but I can live with it, easily; just choose between 3C (underbid) and 2NT (right on values but very wrong on shape). If clubs are only six-long and the hand is invitational, I bid 2NT even with singleton spade.

It is quite common in any system to face hands where no call is 100% right. Just means there is a hole in the system but trying to fix THIS hole will need a major overhaul and IMO it is not worth it unless you are indeed ready for a mjor overhaul and ripple effects all over the place.

[jdonn]

Of course you bid 3♣ now even if you think you are too good for it, because any other choice at all has very high odds of getting you to an utterly ridiculous contract.

[rogerclee]

Josh makes sense.

[Free]

3♣ is the only call you can make here, you know it will play better than anything else.

This hand illustrates the usefulness of being able to show an invitational hand with 6+♣, be it 1♠-3♣ or 1♠-2♣-2♦-3♣.

[Fluffy]

2NT doesn't seem totally wrong, as long as partner has 2 clubs and ♥K/♣K we might be in a decent game/contract.

playing MPs, being 3♣ now 5-11 I'd try 2NT and pray.

[bftboy]

There is nothing wrong with occasionally being max for a bid, so I'd bid 3♣ comfortably, but I'm curious as to how much better people think the hand should be to bid 2nt. would a couple of 10's do it, esp. ♥ 10?

[P_Marlowe]

Hanoi5, on Mar 13 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

You're white, they're red:

♠x
♥Axx
♦xx
♣AJxxxxx

1♠ 1NT
2♦ ???

What do you bid now?

3♣ is to pass here, right? Would you bid that?

Hi,

#1 If I can bid 3C, I will do this.
#2 Sure, 3C is not a strong bid, but it is not a weak bid either.
P can bid on, if he happens to have fitting club values, and
that is, what you happen to need.
Of course you would have loved to make an inv. jump to 3C
the round before, but ...
If you play, that a jump to 3C the round before was weak, than
3C now showes a constructive hand, so you dont need to play
direct inv. jumps.
And if you play, that 2/1 is GF unless responder rebids his suit,
you would be ok as well.

And than you are green vs. red, i.e. it is ok to miss a game, which
has a 50% succes rate, it is not nice, but it could be worse.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[peachy]

Free, on Mar 15 2010, 08:29 AM, said:

3♣ is the only call you can make here, you know it will play better than anything else.

This hand illustrates the usefulness of being able to show an invitational hand with 6+♣, be it 1♠-3♣ or 1♠-2♣-2♦-3♣.

Edit - superfluous removed. sorry.