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Spontaneous System Discussion? What's OK when playing a pickup game?

Poll: Which of these actions is most appropriate? (34 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of these actions is most appropriate?

  1. Since we did not discuss, I must bid naturally - I can suggest a defense after the hand. (16 votes [47.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.06%

  2. Since I know what system would suit my hand, I ask partner to pick an NT defense - I'll have to live with whatever he suggests. (11 votes [32.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.35%

  3. I ask partner to suggest a defense, but if it's something I'm not comfortable playing I'll try again/decline. (4 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  4. I ask partner whether it would be OK to play my favourite NT defense. (2 votes [5.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  5. I pick a defense and make a bid based on that, while announcing the defense I've chosen. (1 votes [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

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#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-January-07, 17:02

Say I am playing a pickup game in the MBC, never played with any of the other 3 before. RHO opens 1NT (presumably 15-17 balanced), and I would like to bid, but have not discussed any defensive bidding with my partner. Assume for the moment neither of us mentions NT defences in our profiles, and pick the action you consider most acceptable in the poll. Further assume that, like >90% of the BBO population, all players claim to be "advanced" or "experts" and can thus be "reasonably" assumed to have heard of one or more NT defenses.

Then, discuss how this changes if
a. Partner's profile mentions "capp"
b. My profile mentions "dont"
c. All of the above
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
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#2 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-January-07, 20:59

Option 4 is unacceptable.
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#3 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 01:58

It really doesn't matter

Quote

I am playing a pickup game in the MBC

Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#4 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 06:13

One option you neglected to mention is involving the opponents in the process.

I would bid naturally and discuss it later if I wanted to play a conventional defense.

If I wanted to play a conventional defense on the hand in play, I would privately ask the opponents if it was OK if I asked my partner what NT defense he wanted to play.

I would not suggest a specific conventional defense myself since I have seen my hand and thus know whether one might fit better on this occasion.
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#5 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 06:23

Yeah you have to assume natural.

If you wanted to do something though, then you must ask partner what he plays, and you cannot reject it. Asking partner what they play and rejecting it gives you a freeroll and could easily be done unethically.

All of this would ensure that you are not picking the best possible defense for your actual hand.
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#6 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 06:30

From my observations in the MBC, the option 1 is mostly prefered, especially by random choosen p und ops.
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#7 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 06:32

I hoped it is standard to ask partner which defence to choose. But of course even this could be used unethical- in a sense that you simply overcall natural with the hand for it and ask otherwise.

But I do not care too much about cheats at the mbc, so I let the opps discuss during the bidding.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#8 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 10:32

I agree with Tim -- I'd ask the opps if it's OK for us to decide a defense now. If they say no, I'd assume natural.

#9 User is offline   onoway 

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Posted 2010-January-16, 08:12

What is appropriate when dropped into a tourney as a sub? Do you have to assume natural there? What if you and your pard's profile agree?
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-January-16, 08:41

in the main room I ask p. he usually suggests something I know. otherwise I either google whatever he said, or asked him to pick either landy ml dont capp or natural

in a tourney when subbing I say "ur profile" and if it doesnt specify an nt defense I assume natural.
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#11 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 06:21

I think 1 is the most safe and fair. It's not that bad either, it's not like conventional defence makes big difference in expected value anyway.

Other options are not acceptable which 2nd being the mildest offender.
With 3rd you will just waste opponents time: "What do we play partner ? - DONT - damn i hate it, something else ? - CAPP? - I hate it too, something else ?" I hope you see it doesn't make sense :)

4th and 5th are against spirit and rules of bridge. I think people doing that on BBO (many of them) are either morons or clueless beginners.

One interesting option which is not mentioned is to ask opponents to suggest the defence for you :). We use it in live friendly home games. Unfortunately I don't think you can do that on BBO. It won't be understood.
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#12 User is offline   pirate22 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 10:47

More oil to the fire-----leads--- when ones pard makes a lead,and you purport to be ply Sayc low is enc, is that set in stone,what is more annoying is discards,is this set in stone even=i want it or is odd= i want it--then there is hi/low,
and there is no room on the profile------ yes one can say how long is a piece of string:) but 2 more lines would help greatly,and makes pick up games more enjoyable, any seconders
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#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 16:02

I'm OK with all options if my opps do it, but I wouldn't personally do 3 or 4. I guess I would do 3 if someone suggested suction, though. I've actually done 4 also a few times (when some rare convention came up) but only as a joke. The only thing I wouldn't like is if my opps did 4 more than once (agreeing to natural 2 when he gets dealt a natural clubs hand, then on next hand agreeing to majors because he has majors).
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