[MickyB]

Scoring: IMP

1♣-(1♠)-2♥-(3♠)
4♥-(P)-??

---

[Jlall]

4S

[MickyB]

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

[cherdanno]

MickyB, on Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

I thought 4♠ was close.
In your sequence, I would bid 6♥. I am too afraid partner is 2425 where I would need the world to make a grand.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Nov 1 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

4S

hmmm what is partner supposed to do with the following hand since he just wants to play game not issue a slam invitation

---

[Jlall]

MickyB, on Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

7C

[Jlall]

cherdanno, on Nov 1 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

MickyB, on Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

I thought 4♠ was close.
In your sequence, I would bid 6♥. I am too afraid partner is 2425 where I would need the world to make a grand.

If he's 2425 then why is he trying for 7 after we sign off in 5H unless he has something like xx Qxxx AK AQxxx at a minimum? Our hand is amazing for bidding a grand considering we just signed off in 5H.

I also did not consider 4S to be close at all, I would never dream of passing with this hand.

[dellache]

MickyB, on Nov 2 2009, 02:25 AM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

7♣ now. I would also have bid 4♠, accepting the rare cases where I go down in 5♥ when pard has stretched to 4♥ (you would be glad to play weak NT ont this board).

I didnot mention my Clubs, and partner make a grand slam invitation ?
♦A,♥Q,♣AQ(J)xx+ are a certainty. Something is still missing in his hand for suggesting 7♥ (5♥ was a sign-off after all). It's probably long clubs or ♦K, or less likely ♠K.
xx Qxxx AK AQJxx ?
xx Qxxx A AQxxxx ?
x Qxxx Ax AQxxxx ?
Kx Qxxx Ax AQJxx ?
All those hands make a grand. It's difficult to construct a hand that would bid 6♦ and not produce 13 tricks imo.

[gnasher]

I pass 4♥. Partner's 4♥ doesn't show any more than a weak notrump with four hearts.

[WesleyC]

Its close but with the double fit I like 4S.

After 4S 5C 5H 6D, 7C seems clear - I'd be surprised if it wasn't laydown.

For me 6D must be showing extras - with JUST a diamond control partner can simply raise to 6H. Something like x Qxx Axx AQxxxx would be about what I'd expect.

[Fluffy]

I find it close between pass and 4♠, we have extras, but are they good enough?

Partner is wide ranged, weak NT yes its possible, but he is also bidding this way with a reverse in hearts.

Our 5 level safety is good enough to make a move IMO. I'd try 4♠ as well.

5♣-5♥
6♦

wtf does partner have?. he doesn't care about heart honnors to bid 5NT?, he doesn't care about keycards to bid 4NT the round before?

This is consistent with a void only. 6 clubs and 5 hearts. The void can be on any suit but my best guess is that it is in diamonds. I am bidding 7.

[Cyberyeti]

gnasher, on Nov 2 2009, 04:09 AM, said:

I pass 4♥.  Partner's 4♥ doesn't show any more than a weak notrump with four hearts.

That depends on your system, would be helpful to know what brand of notrump, length of club, and suit was opened if 4-4 ♥/♣.

To me playing a weak NT the auction means something else entirely.

Also does nobody bid 3♥ first up fit-jump style with this type of hand ? It seems to place partner rather better if the next hand bids 4♠ rather than 3.

I'm also confused by the 6♦ bid, presumably he doesn't have a stiff spade as it would be sensible to cue it if he had, what would 5N mean ? To me it would be rolling and force me to cue 6♣ with the K (♥ seem to be agreed, so is it neded for 'pick a slam'?), and that info must be useful to him so why bid 6♦ ?

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on Nov 2 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

That depends on your system, would be helpful to know what brand of notrump, length of club, and suit was opened if 4-4 ♥/♣.

To me playing a weak NT the auction means something else entirely.

I think that when someone posts a sequence without stating the system, you can assume 5-card majors, a strong notrump, and (if relevant) longer minor. Even if it does say "England Trials" in the heading.

An interesting aside: by my count, of the partnerships in the top division who played at the weekend just gone, there were:

9 playing strong notrump and 5-card majors
1 playing strong notrump and 5-card spades
4 playing strong notrump and 4-card majors
4 playing weak notrump and 4-card majors
2 playing a strong club

It seems to me that England's finest are losing touch with their roots.

Quote

Also does nobody bid 3♥ first up fit-jump style with this type of hand ? It seems to place partner rather better if the next hand bids 4♠ rather than 3.

That would be a better bid, if available.

[billw55]

cherdanno, on Nov 1 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

MickyB, on Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

I thought 4♠ was close.
In your sequence, I would bid 6♥. I am too afraid partner is 2425 where I would need the world to make a grand.

Surely partner holds the ♦K or ♠K to try 6♦; else he has an ordinary minimum opening, not enough to move over 5♥.

For Jlall and dellache: what's the point of 7♣? If already committed to the grand, why not just go directly to 7♥?

[dellache]

billw55, on Nov 2 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Nov 1 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

MickyB, on Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Close? Or not?

Ok, if you bid 4♠ it continues

5♣ from p
5♥ from you
6♦ from p

Your go.

I thought 4♠ was close.
In your sequence, I would bid 6♥. I am too afraid partner is 2425 where I would need the world to make a grand.

Surely partner holds the ♦K or ♠K to try 6♦; else he has an ordinary minimum opening, not enough to move over 5♥.

For Jlall and dellache: what's the point of 7♣? If already committed to the grand, why not just go directly to 7♥?

This maybe stupid but this is a safety play against a club void, in case pard has 6 Clubs (2416 ?). Of course, if RHO doubles 7♥ I can still bid 7NT. I don't really fear a Heart void in 7♣, because I expect LHO would have bid more spades.

In that case you may object : why not bid a straight 7NT and save 2 imps ?

Well, actually this would surely be right, bc I very much suspect we have 13 tricks from the top, barring a grotesque ♦Void by pard or some obscure xx Qxx AK AQxxxx (I'd double 3♠ with that probably). Anyway, I expect oppos may miss this grand, and I very cowardly bid 7♣. No strong feelings about this one...

[Fluffy]

I don't think you will like 7NT if partner has diamodn void .

[jdonn]

Agree with 4♠, then 5♥, then 7♣. Don't like passing 4♥ at all, we can easily have slam even opposite a weak notrump, like xx Qxx Axx AQxxx. Also it's not inconsistent to think a slam try was close but that it's later obvious to accept an invitation to the grand. The slam try is close largely due to general values, but bidding the grand is clear because the controls are amazing.

[MickyB]

Perhaps opener should have bid keycard...might get awkward if there's a spade void opposite?

---

[gnasher]

South's clubs were AQJxxx. That doesn't make slam any better, but it does make it easier for South to move: opposite x AK10xx xxxx xxx, six is roughly on a club finesse. I think South should bid 5♥ over 3♠.

Edit: Perhaps I should add that I play 5♥ as a slam try without spade control, rather than as insisting on slam opposite a spade control.

[jdonn]

Personally I like partner's bidding. Those tricky opponents don't always have 9 spades, which to me makes 5 quite risky on his hand. But I have no doubts you could miss a slam by just bidding 4♥ as well, so I can't fault if he bid more strongly either.