[awm]

Feel free to discuss... if you really want to...

[Gerben42]

The first time I heard it I thought: Poor women. After that I thought: Poor kids... But the final conclusion is: Poor husband.

Maybe "poor kids" anyway. It is well known that early-borns have a drastically increased risk of severe psychological problems. Having 8 of them in 1 family is asking for trouble.

[Hanoi5]

Is there a husband? I haven't read the complete news but I think she had the kids 'artificially' and because 'she didn't want to be alone'.

[helene_t]

I haven't read anything about it, but someone mentioned at the bridge club that an American woman has given birth to eight children after having had eleven embryos implanted, so I guess that is what you are talking about.

Surprising that it is possible and also surprising that the physicians are allowed to do it. I guess it is something positive that U.S. law does not interfere with such things like they do over here.

[kfay]

helene_t, on Mar 12 2009, 06:01 AM, said:

I haven't read anything about it, but someone mentioned at the bridge club that an American woman has given birth to eight children after having had eleven embryos implanted, so I guess that is what you are talking about.

Surprising that it is possible and also surprising that the physicians are allowed to do it. I guess it is something positive that U.S. law does not interfere with such things like they do over here.

Well I know some states are drafting legislation now to prevent this sort of thing.

Actually it's a shame laws weren't already in place. This is a single woman without a job who already had six children... now she has 8 more. Don't ask me why she felt the need to have more.

Really the whole thing makes me a little nauseated.

[mike777]

This issue is about to explode in the next few years. Many many couples and singles want children. What was considered science fiction is here or arriving soon.

You can take a test tube baby and implant it in a rented womb and 9 months later you got a kid. This clearly falls under the Health Care discussion. Artificial wombs are being worked on in the lab.

I have heard estimates that these 8 babies will cost 20 million to take care of them over the coming decades. Other estimates run from 5 million in the short run to ?.


Hopefully someone can post how Europe and Canada handle this issue in their Health Care System. Example they can outlaw the doctors from doing it in country but what happens if a citizen simply goes offshore and comes back pregnant? How many babies are allowed to be implanted and paid by who? If you break the law what happens, nothing?

[helene_t]

mike777, on Mar 12 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

Example they can outlaw the doctors from doing it in country but what happens if a  citizen simply goes offshore and comes back pregnant? How many babies are allowed to be implanted and paid by who?

Most wannabe mothers only want one child (at a time, that is) so the issue is whether multiple embryos should be implanted in order to improve the chance of one of them surviving. As the technique improves, doctors are less likely to recommend multiple implants. I think some countries still allow double implants, I don't think you can get more than two anywhere in the EU but I may be wrong.

Anyway, it's not like your child benefits are reduced if you get twins on purpose rather than by accident. Indeed, you could go to another country where the rules are laxer and get pregnant there. You don't loose any rights on social benefits.

[mike777]

helene_t, on Mar 12 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

mike777, on Mar 12 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

Example they can outlaw the doctors from doing it in country but what happens if a  citizen simply goes offshore and comes back pregnant? How many babies are allowed to be implanted and paid by who?

Most wannabe mothers only want one child (at a time, that is) so the issue is whether multiple embryos should be implanted in order to improve the chance of one of them surviving. As the technique improves, doctors are less likely to recommend multiple implants. I think some countries still allow double implants, I don't think you can get more than two anywhere in the EU but I may be wrong.

Anyway, it's not like your child benefits are reduced if you get twins on purpose rather than by accident. Indeed, you could go to another country where the rules are laxer and get pregnant there. You don't loose any rights on social benefits.

Helene I think if we can get the government to pay for rental wombs or artificial wombs, once invented, the demand for kids will explode in the USA. I would bet millions and millions of couples and singles will line up for this.


Young girls renting out their womb to carry a child make a ton of money and in this economy, many will be willing if the taxpayer is paying. That is why I asked who pays in Canada and the UK for rental wombs. Again this is clearly a health care issue.

[DrTodd13]

She had 6 embryos implanted and two of them split for two sets of identical twins. She has said that she doesn't want a man because that would distract her from being with her children.

[matmat]

good thing the state of California has ample available resources to help this woman.

[luke warm]

matmat, on Mar 13 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

good thing the state of California has ample available resources to help this woman.

yes... it's also a shame that all states aren't as progressive as calif... the citizens there are sophisticated enough to know that even though their wants might break the state, the u.s. taxpayer will foot the bill

[matmat]

luke warm, on Mar 13 2009, 06:20 AM, said:

matmat, on Mar 13 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

good thing the state of California has ample available resources to help this woman.

yes... it's also a shame that all states aren't as progressive as calif... the citizens there are sophisticated enough to know that even though their wants might break the state, the u.s. taxpayer will foot the bill

*shrug*

whoever drafts legislation to prevent this sort of abuse in the future better do so very carefully, this whole case is fraught with ethical, social and legal pitfalls...

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Mar 12 2009, 09:51 PM, said:

Helene I think if we can get the government to pay for rental wombs or artificial wombs, once invented, the demand for kids will explode in the USA. I would bet millions and millions of couples and singles will line up for this.


Young girls renting out their womb to carry a child make a ton of money and in this economy, many will be willing if the taxpayer is paying. That is why I asked who pays in Canada and the UK for rental wombs. Again this is clearly a health care issue.

????

I don't buy into this theory: I appreciate that bearing children is incredibly inconvenient. However, I don't this that this is salient compared to the time / expense associated with raising children.

There are all sorts of studies that show that the number of children being born is inversely related affluence and education. As societies get richer, most parents seem to prefer to concentrate their efforts on a smaller number of children.

There are exceptions to this rule: Religious conservatives breed like rabbits. However, I suspect that they are less likely to adopt artificial wombs than most people.

Honestly, the whole situation doesn't concern me that much...

Society might hit a stage where many folks decide to use artificial wombs... (Many people already have voluntary C sections to avoid the inconvenience associated with labor). So be it...

If I had to make a guess, I'd suspect artificial wombs to wander in and out of style...

Today we have the "slow food movement" and the Campaign for Real Ale, tomorrow we'll see a "Real Wombs"...

[Lobowolf]

hrothgar, on Mar 13 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

There are all sorts of studies that show that the number of children being born is inversely related affluence and education. As societies get richer, most parents seem to prefer to concentrate their efforts on a smaller number of children.

And conversely, at least on a micro level, having smaller numbers of children increases the opportunities for affluence. Expensive little buggers.

[TimG]

I find it hard to believe that there is a sizable or significant segment of the population that is not having babies because of the inconvenience of pregnancy.

[mike777]

I think there would be a huge increase in babies if the government paid for rental wombs. Many people want children and cannot for many reasons. I would guess the demand would be in the millions over a few decades. This would include not only couples but singles such as OCTOMOM. This would include gay couples as well as older folks.

Now add in if in the future the government picks up alot of child care costs such as health care, education, and perhaps food and shelter.