[pclayton]

Cascade, on Dec 12 2006, 10:56 AM, said:

1♦ (3♣) 3♥ (Pass)
4♣ (Pass) ?

♠ xxxx
♥ AKQxxx
♦ xx
♣ x

Does the 3♥ bidder or the 4♣ bidder (without a club control) make another move?

When pard makes a slam try and you hold AKQ-6th of trump of your suit, you should cooperate. A Last Train 4♦ if available feels right.

I agree that 4♣ doesn't have to show a control, since we are jammed. What I'm less clear about is whether or not it promises ♥ support.

For instance, what would you bid with AK, Jx, AKQxxxx, QJ?

I also agree that 5♥ is a bit much, but I wouldn't criticize it too sharply, since the chances that pard has specifically. Even Justin's example of Qxx, AQxxxx, x, Kxx gives us a play, although switch the A and K of H and we have no play.

[FrancesHinden]

pclayton, on Dec 12 2006, 08:17 PM, said:

I agree that 4♣ doesn't have to show a control, since we are jammed. What I'm less clear about is whether or not it promises ♥ support.

For instance, what would you bid with AK, Jx, AKQxxxx, QJ?

4♦, unless for some reason we've not agreed 3♥ is game forcing.

There are certainly auctions where the cue does not promise support.
1D P 1H 1S
2S

for example

But these are auctions where opener is stuck for a forcing bid, not where he is already in a game forcing auction (2S here is often either a good hand with heart support or a big diamond hand, but doesn't have to be)

[neilkaz]

You all have me convinced that my thoughts of bidding 3♠ based on the fact that PD didn't make a neg dbl are too brash. Perhaps PD has 4♠ and 6♥ or perhaps we cannot recover from the confusion.

A direct 4♣ certainly has to show slam interest and controls can be found later if needed.

[cherdano]

mikeh, on Dec 12 2006, 08:34 PM, said:

I second everything that Frances said (and I 'third' everything that Justin said).

Heh, I was first to second, so you are fourthing him.

[goobers]

I haven't had a chance to read all the responses, but thanks for all the feedback. Just to give some closure, this is what partner held:

---

[Cascade]

Jlall, on Dec 13 2006, 07:13 AM, said:

Bidding 5H is a demand for partner to bid slam with a 2nd round control, or cuebid with a first round control (or bid 5N with the guarded king).

When partner has shown reasonable values as by his 3♥ bid it is hard to construct a hand that could force to slam requiring only a club control. On this auciton you would need a solid suit, solid trumps and a first round spade control and your two losers in clubs. Where are partner's values? If you have less then you will never be certain that partner covers your holes.

For this reason I prefer to play the jump as invitational to slam (too much for 4♥) without a control. So partner needs something extra and a club control to bid slam.

[cherdano]

goobers, on Dec 12 2006, 07:23 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 11 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

You could start with 3S, then over whatever your partner responds you next bid 5H.  This should ask partner to bid slam if he holds less than 2 losers in clubs, but it is a little aggressive as it assumes either the club ace or no loser hearts.

Is this a common agreement? I was always under the impression that a voluntary 5 of a major inquired about trump suit quality.

When opponents have bid one suit, it is pretty standard that a jump to 5M asks for a control in their suit. Most also play that when there is one unbid suit in a constructive auction, then 5M asks for control in that suit.

All this assumes that there is a forcing raise of the major available, otherwise 5M is just a general invitation to 6. E.g. (3S)-X-(P)-5H.

In the auction of this thread, you RKCB for hearts if trump quality is your only concern.