[matmat]

Hi.

<VENT>

I'm all for restricting inappropriate cursing, swearing, calling people names etc., but i find it disgusting that people have a problem with kibitzers chatting in languages other than english.

Not gonna name any names (you know who you are), I don't see what gives you the right to ask people not to speak turkish (or french or martian or any other language that you do not understand) while watching a table.

None of the chat goes through to the players, so that's not a problem and it costs you nothing to either clear the screen or ignore kib chat or not read any of it or find a different table.
Furthermore, I find it ridiculous that a yellow took it upon himself to ask all the turkish people to stop talking -> kibitzers in turkish and then went on to ask everyone else to stop talking to kibs... (i can dig up chat logs if someone wants them)..

</VENT>

[barmar]

Don't you think it's kind of rude to hold a side conversation in public chat, in a way that others can't understand?

Of course, if there are a large contingent of Turkish speakers at the table, then it's obviously not an issue. But if it's a mostly-English table, you should either post in English so everyone can understand, or use private messages to talk specifically to the other person.

By the way, this is not just an online issue. I find it just as annoying when I'm playing in a f2f tourney against foreign players, and they do their post-mortem in their language while still sitting at the table with us.

[hrothgar]

barmar, on Nov 5 2006, 01:13 AM, said:

Don't you think it's kind of rude to hold a side conversation in public chat, in a way that others can't understand?

Of course, if there are a large contingent of Turkish speakers at the table, then it's obviously not an issue. But if it's a mostly-English table, you should either post in English so everyone can understand, or use private messages to talk specifically to the other person.

By the way, this is not just an online issue. I find it just as annoying when I'm playing in a f2f tourney against foreign players, and they do their post-mortem in their language while still sitting at the table with us.

I'm very much in agreement with Matmat's posting...

BBO is an international site. Even I'm not arrogant enough to insist that other people can't speak in their native tounge because I haven't bothered to learn it.

Think about what youre saying: You're too lazy to learn Turkish. Because of this, you have the right to force the Turk's to learn English and speak in English just to avoid making you feel uncomfortable.

[barmar]

It's not just me, it's the whole community of kibbitzers that they're being rude to. It's like if you go out to dinner with a bunch of people, and two of them decide to start talking in a language that none of the rest of the companions understand.

[matmat]

barmar, on Nov 4 2006, 05:29 PM, said:

It's not just me, it's the whole community of kibbitzers that they're being rude to. It's like if you go out to dinner with a bunch of people, and two of them decide to start talking in a language that none of the rest of the companions understand.

no. it's more like standing in a crowd watching fireworks go off and talking to a bunch of people in a language that the rest of the crowd doesn't understand. You usually know the people you go out to dinner with, completely different situation.

[hrothgar]

barmar, on Nov 5 2006, 01:29 AM, said:

It's not just me, it's the whole community of kibbitzers that they're being rude to.  It's like if you go out to dinner with a bunch of people, and two of them decide to start talking in a language that none of the rest of the companions understand.

Here's a more apt analogy: You're sitting on a transatlantic flight with a couple friends. Two Frenchmen that you've never met before sit down in the seats behind you and they have the affrontery to start speaking in FRENCH. On flight headed to Boston no less... They're not part of your group. They don't owe anything to your group. They just happen to be sitting in the same area.

As for you dinner example: In general, when I go out to dinner, most of the people share the same native tounge. None-the-less, if you have more than three people, the conversation will typically fragment. A couple people will be arguing about a bidding system, three others will be discussing Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and a few more will be talking about the election this coming Tuesday. And you know what? The political junkies couldn't care less about Buffy, most of the Buffy fans don't know jack ***** about bridge, and the bridge players haven't bathed recented.

This is incredibly common and completely analogous.

[Elianna]

As Matt knows, I frequently don't agree with him on what is rude or polite, but I am 100% in agreement here.

If people don't want to see the talking in Turkish, they can just "enemy" the people talking, block enemy chat, and have done. And if they don't do that for some reason, well, that's their problem.

If this were a chat room this would be a different story, it would be up to whoever's hosting to police the room.

[pclayton]

Furthermore, the match we were watching had two of Turkey's top players.

How would we feel if someone made a rude gesture that people were speaking too much English?

[uday]

This was a team game with a large number of specs. As far as I can tell, the host did not set specs to 'Allow-silent'. Perhaps this (allow-silent) should be the default.

Anyway, this meant, among other things, that the squabbling by the specs spilled over onto the table more than once.

Someday perhaps we'll support multiple chat channels (the only likely answer). Until then? Chatting to spec in Turkish or any other language is just fine with me.

Any player can gag another player via right-click/mark-as-enemy


Uday

[Walddk]

barmar, on Nov 5 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

But if it's a mostly-English table, you should either post in English so everyone can understand ...

It makes be sad and angry to read an arrogant comment like this. "Everyone"!?

"So Barry Margolin and others who only speak one language can understand", I suppose you mean. There is nothing wrong about understanding one language only, but there is a lot wrong when you deny others to speak their native tongue - also as kibitzers on BBO.

"Everyone" does not speak or understand English. I know it's difficult for many Americans to comprehend.

Arrogance and intolerance are the appropriate words in my opinion.

Roland

[Trumpace]

barmar, on Nov 4 2006, 05:13 PM, said:

Don't you think it's kind of rude to hold a side conversation in public chat, in a way that others can't understand?

By the way, this is not just an online issue.  I find it just as annoying when I'm playing in a f2f tourney against foreign players, and they do their post-mortem in their language while still sitting at the table with us.

Talking of side conversations, what do you think of passing beer around, talking about walking a dog etc. Why don't the "police" take action against them?

About the f2f tourney issue, the players are there to _compete_ in bridge. They can talk as they please, as long as they are not violating any bridge rules. It is not a social game. Did it occur to you that they might not be proficient in English and might be having a hard time talking in English? In addition to the pressure of competing now they have the additional pressure of "not being rude" to the opponents... They should have bothered to learn all the other languages of all their opps, how rude.

Maybe everyone should just be silent lest they offend someone. Speaking a language (in some cases English) which your opps can hardly understand is "rude", isn't it?

btw, why does it bother people if ur opps talk in a language you don't understand? During the hand it makes sense, but not after the hand. If they are talking too loudly or affecting the time etc, then it is a different matter.

barmar, on Nov 4 2006, 05:29PM, said:

It's not just me, it's the whole community of kibbitzers that they're being rude to. It's like if you go out to dinner with a bunch of people, and two of them decide to start talking in a language that none of the rest of the companions understand.

How do you know that the _whole_ community of kibitzers is being offended? What makes the person commenting "english only, your rudeness", think they speak for the _whole kibitzer community_, especially an online one?

[keylime]

I agree with the author of the post. Language should never be a determinant of censure when the sole reason for such, is because it is not the lingua franca of a group of people.

[Al_U_Card]

The hallmark of a successful international endeavor is tolerance. BBO reaches across boundaries and comprehensions with the greatest ambassador for common understanding that I know of. Please allow it the opportunity to welcome and encourage all who would make use of its services. Neither exclude nor deny and all will benefit from the resulting synergy.

[fifee]

barmar, on Nov 4 2006, 05:13 PM, said:

Don't you think it's kind of rude to hold a side conversation in public chat, in a way that others can't understand?

Of course, if there are a large contingent of Turkish speakers at the table, then it's obviously not an issue. But if it's a mostly-English table, you should either post in English so everyone can understand, or use private messages to talk specifically to the other person.

BBO is an international bridge website. BBO members are from over 100 countries, from all walks of life, vastly differing cultures and religions with love of bridge in common. BBO is a virtual bridge melting pot.

Anyone who cannot tolerate people in spec speaking in their native language should find a bridge site which meets their lingual needs.