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1 Heart doubled was down 3 , -500.
Hearts were 5-1, with East having 5.
2spades makes and East/West can only make partials in NT or clubs.
Who should have introduced Spade suit? How? & When?
Thank you
Who should bid Spades? 2/1 ACBL
#1
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Posted 2017-June-16, 07:25
1 Heart doubled was down 3 , -500.
Hearts were 5-1, with East having 5.
2spades makes and East/West can only make partials in NT or clubs.
Who should have introduced Spade suit? How? & When?
Thank you
#2
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Posted 2017-June-16, 08:41
If I were you, I would check South for a pulse, and if you don't find one, call 9-1-1. South is so asleep at the wheel. For him to ignore your 1♥ overcall is unconscionable. You need to know that he has 4 spades and at least 6 hcp. He must bid 1♠.
PASS doesn't quite communicate his hand's assets.
South is acting zombie-like.
PASS doesn't quite communicate his hand's assets.
South is acting zombie-like.
#3
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Posted 2017-June-16, 09:32
Can't agree with Spawn here. I think the initial two passes are reasonable. Partner would probably have doubled if he was interested in spades, and 1♥ going off may not be a bad result. A bid of 1♠ could force the level too high for a bigger no-fit negative score.
However, it is different over the double. When it is passed round to him I think he should protect with redouble. Let North scramble spades or clubs, or an unlikely 1NT.
However, it is different over the double. When it is passed round to him I think he should protect with redouble. Let North scramble spades or clubs, or an unlikely 1NT.
#4
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Posted 2017-June-16, 13:08
If the opponents can be trusted to have the penalty pass, I would suggest this:
p-p-p-1D
1h-p-p-x
p-p-xx-p
1S
p-p-p-1D
1h-p-p-x
p-p-xx-p
1S
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#5
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Posted 2017-June-16, 13:21
The 1♥ overcall is pretty marginal. It isn't achieving much in the way of pre-emption and the suit quality is pretty moderate. You might not want a heart lead either. Many will overcall, but I'm not sure you should.
#6
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Posted 2017-June-16, 14:04
Tramticket, on 2017-June-16, 13:21, said:
The 1♥ overcall is pretty marginal. It isn't achieving much in the way of pre-emption and the suit quality is pretty moderate. You might not want a heart lead either. Many will overcall, but I'm not sure you should.
I agree - but sometimes, if it is matchpoints, it is right to get in slightly undervalue.
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#7
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Posted 2017-June-16, 16:45
Playing a 1S bid after a 1H overcall as 6+HCP and a 4 card suit is a poor bidding idea.
Is the 1H over caller really supposed to now bid 1NT with 8HCP and a 2=5=3=3 shape?
Would a 1N rebid by the overcaller now even promise a stopper?
My style is to overcall at the one level with @8-17 and
some very good players use @6-16ish range. Responding
as if over caller has an opening bid is an unsound idea
when the lower range is really 8HCP or even less.
If partner is a Roth Stone trained player, they overcall at the one level on 14+,
however, since this 1H overcall has 8HCP(8!) this rules out a super sound overcall style.
Winstonm has a playable solution to the bidding on this hand.
Is the 1H over caller really supposed to now bid 1NT with 8HCP and a 2=5=3=3 shape?
Would a 1N rebid by the overcaller now even promise a stopper?
My style is to overcall at the one level with @8-17 and
some very good players use @6-16ish range. Responding
as if over caller has an opening bid is an unsound idea
when the lower range is really 8HCP or even less.
If partner is a Roth Stone trained player, they overcall at the one level on 14+,
however, since this 1H overcall has 8HCP(8!) this rules out a super sound overcall style.
Winstonm has a playable solution to the bidding on this hand.
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Posted 2017-June-17, 01:42
Perfect example hand for S.O.S. redouble
#10
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Posted 2017-June-17, 02:13
If the North hand had stronger Hs and weaker Ss, like KTxx KQxxx Tx XX, I too would overcall 1H. With the OP hand, however, I would double 1D to get both majors into the auction. I view the strong 4 card S suit as a more important feature than the 5th H in a hand so weak that I can barely justify any bid at all.
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Posted 2017-June-17, 02:19
dickiegera, on 2017-June-16, 07:25, said:
2spades makes
Really?
Tramticket, on 2017-June-16, 13:21, said:
It isn't achieving much in the way of pre-emption
Not by itself, but partner will be able to raise hearts most of the time.
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Posted 2017-June-17, 02:25
nekthen, on 2017-June-17, 01:42, said:
Perfect example hand for S.O.S. redouble
It is? You have two trumps, an ace and a king, what more could partner expect? Change partners black suits around and do you really want to be in 2C? It seems to me to be a perfect example of a pointless (almost literally) overcall, particularly opposite someone who could not even muster a third hand opening.
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Posted 2017-June-17, 02:41
1H is an obvious overcall.
Where are you parrot?
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Posted 2017-June-17, 03:08
RedSpawn, on 2017-June-16, 08:41, said:
If I were you, I would check South for a pulse, and if you don't find one, call 9-1-1. South is so asleep at the wheel. For him to ignore your 1♥ overcall is unconscionable. You need to know that he has 4 spades and at least 6 hcp. He must bid 1♠.
PASS doesn't quite communicate his hand's assets.
South is acting zombie-like.
PASS doesn't quite communicate his hand's assets.
South is acting zombie-like.
North is coming from pass. He could easily hold something like xx AKJxx xxx Jxx and would pass 1♠.
IMO pass by south was OK, he just needed to read the position and redouble after double was converted to penalty by East.
Regarding the 1♥ overcall, I think it is borderline between minimum overcall and pass.
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#15
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Posted 2017-June-17, 03:34
Hmm. I might have bid 1S immediately, but not if north routinely overcalls on hands like this. As the bidding went bidding 1S makes more sense than a redouble. Do you really want partner to take out into a minor? You will probably still end up in a seven card fit, but one level higher. And what if partner has the same hand but with one less spade and more hearts? He might take it into his head to pass the redouble rather than end up in a 3-3 fit.
Sorry, but it is not an overcall in my book. It looks like an example of players thinking that their hand has become stronger because they have already passed. Yes, if partner has a fit you might be able to obstruct the auction, but I think he needs to be able to rely on a few values opposite if he is to compete effectively. If you really have to bid a double makes more sense as it at least gets the spades into the action.
Sorry, but it is not an overcall in my book. It looks like an example of players thinking that their hand has become stronger because they have already passed. Yes, if partner has a fit you might be able to obstruct the auction, but I think he needs to be able to rely on a few values opposite if he is to compete effectively. If you really have to bid a double makes more sense as it at least gets the spades into the action.
#16
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Posted 2017-June-17, 03:53
On some days, we would probably repeat the auction. On some other days, I might pass as North.
In MPs, I think the correct action is for South to sit it out and take the minus.
In MPs, I think the correct action is for South to sit it out and take the minus.
#17
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Posted 2017-June-17, 05:02
dickiegera, on 2017-June-16, 07:25, said:
IMO
- North's 1♥ overcall is OK.
- South should pass 1♥.
- North should pass West's re-opening double.
- At MPs, warned of the bad break, South should try an SOS redouble. 1♥X is probably a bad score, ao it's worth risking a worse score, on the off-chance of something better.
- At IMPs, South should pass 1♥X because a better 1-level bolt-hole may not be available and a 2-level rescue must play 2 tricks better, to be an improvement. e.g. North might have held ♠ x x ♥ K x x x x x ♦ Q x ♣ K Q J
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Posted 2017-June-17, 05:51
I feel it easy to make or suggest bids to suit the hands after one knows the result.Give these hands in a bidding contest and see what happens
1H overcall is not that bad an overcall considering that both LHO and P have passed once so one may find suitable cards and few useful values with P.For example P may be holding LHO cards .I do not agree with the suggestion that P shd have responded 1S as his DK has very doubtful value as also the spade suit is a quite weak and only four carded. P should have passed.I also do not think that an SOS redouble is advisable with only two rags in club suit.We treat this hand as "bad luck" brought about by the violent distribution .and forget .The existing gadgets, in my personal opinion ,are not good enough .
1H overcall is not that bad an overcall considering that both LHO and P have passed once so one may find suitable cards and few useful values with P.For example P may be holding LHO cards .I do not agree with the suggestion that P shd have responded 1S as his DK has very doubtful value as also the spade suit is a quite weak and only four carded. P should have passed.I also do not think that an SOS redouble is advisable with only two rags in club suit.We treat this hand as "bad luck" brought about by the violent distribution .and forget .The existing gadgets, in my personal opinion ,are not good enough .
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Posted 2017-June-17, 07:24
nige1, on 2017-June-17, 05:02, said:
IMO
- At IMPs, South should pass 1♥X because a better 1-level bolt-hole may not be available and a 2-level rescue must play 2 tricks better, to be an improvement. e.g. North might have held ♠ x x ♥ K x x x x x ♦ Q x ♣ K Q J
He would have opened 1♥, he is coming from pass. If this is not a 1♥ opener for your style then he would have opened weak 2♥.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#20
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Posted 2017-June-17, 07:39
shyams, on 2017-June-17, 03:53, said:
On some days, we would probably repeat the auction. On some other days, I might pass as North.
In MPs, I think the correct action is for South to sit it out and take the minus.
In MPs, I think the correct action is for South to sit it out and take the minus.
What about the penalty pass from East? At mps, I think it better to try to improve and escape than play in the contract the opponents prefer me to play - a zero can't get any rounder.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
1 Heart doubled was down 3 , -500.
Hearts were 5-1, with East having 5.
2spades makes and East/West can only make partials in NT or clubs.
Who should have introduced Spade suit? How? & When?