BBO Discussion Forums: Here's a nice hand (bid it MY way) - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Here's a nice hand (bid it MY way)

#21 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-August-16, 10:07

Winstonm's way


Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#22 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,516
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-16, 11:01

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 10:07, said:

Winstonm's way




If I bid 4 what would 4N from partner mean ? and what would 4N mean from me ?
0

#23 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,522
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-August-16, 11:08

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 10:07, said:

Winstonm's way




At this point I am committing us to slam as partner has agreed he likes his hand for slam. My bid at this point is a simple 4S as later on I want to emphasize that spade honors are a premium. If partner has nothing left to say, I would expect 5C over 4S, at which point I would continue with 5D (and this is one reason I set the suit with 4C - there can be no confusion that this is an attempt to play 5D). 5D commits us to 6C yet partner needs to ask himself why didn't I just bid 6. The obvious reason is looking for a grand. Partner will now cooperate and bid 5H with concentrated hearts, 5S with concentrated spades, or 6C with neither.

I'm not castigating those who use keycard or other such bids - it's just that I learned the game and was playing at a fairly high level well before the popularity of keycard and so learned cue bidding. If you get the same results another way, that is fine with me.

PS: To answer Cyberyeti's question, 4N is a partnership agreement: it can be keycard or, what I prefer, more of a last train type bid, showing extras, or something else entirely.

(At one time in one partnership I actually played Culbertson 4N/5N convention where in this sequence 4N would show 2 aces and a king of a previously bid suit, and if followed by 5N would show 3 aces. It was actually quite playable. Posted Image)
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#24 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,516
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-16, 11:32

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-16, 11:08, said:


PS: To answer Cyberyeti's question, 4N is a partnership agreement: it can be keycard or, what I prefer, more of a last train type bid, showing extras, or something else entirely.



The point of the question was to OP, because if you're not sure what 4N is over 4 then don't bid 4, and if you're not 100% sure how partner would read 4N, don't do that either :)

For us 4N over 4 would be a spade cue (we use NT to sub for the most expensive cue)
0

#25 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 506
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-August-16, 11:42

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-16, 11:08, said:

At this point I am committing us to slam as partner has agreed he likes his hand for slam. My bid at this point is a simple 4S as later on I want to emphasize that spade honors are a premium. If partner has nothing left to say, I would expect 5C over 4S, at which point I would continue with 5D (and this is one reason I set the suit with 4C - there can be no confusion that this is an attempt to play 5D). 5D commits us to 6C yet partner needs to ask himself why didn't I just bid 6. The obvious reason is looking for a grand. Partner will now cooperate and bid 5H with concentrated hearts, 5S with concentrated spades, or 6C with neither.


I like your thinking here, Winstonm, however there may be 13 tricks available without partner having any extra value in /. 1165 is c. 70% if partner has stiff and A and A
0

#26 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,522
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-August-16, 11:44

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 11:42, said:

I like your thinking here, Winstonm, however there may be 13 tricks available without partner having any extra value in /. 1165 is c. 70% if partner has stiff and A and A




Yep - never claimed perfection or even best. Just my way. Posted Image

Kx, Axxx, x, AJxxxx could bid 5S over 4S also 🧐
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#27 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-August-16, 14:17



Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#28 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,516
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-16, 14:34

I think I'm in a grand -1 unless I can make 7N on a double.
0

#29 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 361
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-August-16, 15:04

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 14:17, said:



Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.

What was the lead on this one?
0

#30 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,522
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:10

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 14:17, said:



Here's the full hand. Winstonm, your partner may not have cooperated over 4?

We did bid to 6NT, on an auction that could have been better.
Cyberyeti, we have 4N available as a Spade cue, if we remember.

No, but I will still insist on 6 clubs over 5 clubs by bidding 5D This compels partner to cue 5H after which I can bid 5S or simply bid 7 clubs.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#31 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:12

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-August-16, 15:04, said:

What was the lead on this one?

T
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#32 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:16

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 14:34, said:

I think I'm in a grand -1 unless I can make 7N on a double.

Is the double squeeze not reasonably automatic just from cashing tricks?
0

#33 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,522
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:32

View PostGilithin, on 2021-August-16, 16:16, said:

Is the double squeeze not reasonably automatic just from cashing tricks?

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#34 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,516
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:46

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-16, 16:32, said:

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts


Nope, cash 6 diamonds and 3 clubs finishing in the diamond hand and A then fixes N. A heart lead breaks this squeeze up, but not sure if there's another.
0

#35 User is online   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 759
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-August-16, 16:53

Now that the hand is known we sit back and wait for someone to give a plausible auction to 7 by East.
0

#36 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-August-16, 21:07

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-16, 16:32, said:

If north guards hearts and south spades I think the squeeze fails. In the 4 card ending north holds Jxx in hearts and Club J while south holds QI0x spades and Q hearts

Rather than throwing spades, I think the toughest defence is for North to keep the black suits. This causes some entry and timing issues rather than just giving a textbook double squeeze position.
0

#37 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 361
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-August-17, 00:22

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 16:12, said:

T

Is it just me or is that a strange lead opposite 6NT when one of the opponents opponents have shown long . Anyway you now make 7NT with the squeeze
0

#38 User is offline   nullve 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Joined: 2014-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:partscores

Posted 2021-August-17, 00:36

So this is a compound squeeze starting as a triple squeeze against North.

A search tells me that lamford have posted at least two compound squeeze deals on BBF so far this year but I wonder how "common" (measured how?) compound squeezes really are.

Maybe we should have a "compound squeeze on BBO" competition? :)
0

#39 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,516
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-17, 01:59

View Postnullve, on 2021-August-17, 00:36, said:

So this is a compound squeeze starting as a triple squeeze against North.

A search tells me that lamford have posted at least two compound squeeze deals on BBF so far this year but I wonder how "common" (measured how?) compound squeezes really are.

Maybe we should have a "compound squeeze on BBO" competition? :)


Yup, for those that don't see it, the key to this is the squeeze on the 5th diamond not the 6th.

Cash one club and 5 diamonds, N has to keep 3 clubs so can't keep 3 hearts AND 2 spades. If he guards hearts, you just cash out the black winners and in the end game it's a classic double. It's more complicated if N keeps spades.

Now you hang on to the 6th diamond and club winners and cash AK to take the idle cards out of his hand. Come back to the other top club and play the 6th diamond. He has to pitch a spade, you pitch a club then cross to the A squeezing S as E has a heart and a spade, W has Ax, N has a club and a spade and S has two spades and a heart and a discard to make.
0

#40 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,311
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-August-17, 02:02

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-August-17, 00:22, said:

Is it just me or is that a strange lead opposite 6NT when one of the opponents opponents have shown long . Anyway you now make 7NT with the squeeze

Yes, I agree it's a strange lead. 6/19 pairs bid and made 6NT, one pair made +1

2 3 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S9
7 13 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 C2
8 15 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
13 6 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
14 8 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 S6
16 12 1440 7.0 27.0 6 NT W 12 DT
2 18 1470 0.0 34.0 6 NT W 13 CJ
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

Share this topic:


  • 4 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users